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On Mon, 12 May 2008 06:11:06 -0700 (PDT), Istor the Macedonian <...@in.gr
On 12 Μάϊος, 08:40, "Krater Makedonski" <...@optusnet.com.auwrote:
This is a LIE.
Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
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On Mon, 12 May 2008 18:35:55 -0700 (PDT), ADR <...@yahoo.com
On May 11, 10:40 pm, "Krater Makedonski" <...@optusnet.com.auwrote:
Zhivko,
I do not know if these incidents ddi really happen but these actions
are inexcusable and help nobody. My personal apologies to the victims
of these crimes.
I think that the Greek state has been responsible in this case. If
the descriptor MK on trucks is an invitation to trouble, a different
descriptor should be attached to these trucks when they enter the
border. The atmosphere is just too charged right now for police
escorts on every truck there is. I hope that the perpetrators are
arrested and charged immediately.
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On Tue, 13 May 2008 17:07:29 +1000, "Krater Makedonski" <...@optusnet.com.au
"ADR" <...@d19g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
On May 11, 10:40 pm, "Krater Makedonski" <...@optusnet.com.auwrote:
Zhivko,
I do not know if these incidents ddi really happen but these actions
are inexcusable and help nobody. My personal apologies to the victims
of these crimes.
I think that the Greek state has been responsible in this case. If
the descriptor MK on trucks is an invitation to trouble, a different
descriptor should be attached to these trucks when they enter the
border. The atmosphere is just too charged right now for police
escorts on every truck there is. I hope that the perpetrators are
arrested and charged immediately.
You can rest assured that nothing of this will be reported by the greek
media, as you can rest assured that the incidents did happen. I have just
finished reading a report of a third attack on a Macedonian truck driver,
second one at Larissa, by about 400-500 "Greek Macedonians", with the greek
police being present again, but again enjoying the "theatre" and doing
nothing to prevent the attack.
"MK" is an internationally approved label and in no way should it be an
"excuse" for attacks, NOR should the attacks be a reason for your
"recommendation". With it you show your true (grecian) colours and are
nothing but an apologist for these nazis.
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On Tue, 13 May 2008 05:48:48 -0700 (PDT), Istor the Macedonian <...@in.gr
On 13 Μάϊος, 10:07, "Krater Makedonski" <...@optusnet.com.auwrote:
........................................
My dear ethnic malaka,
Interim agreement does not allow Fyromian vehicles traveling in Greece
with that label. So, it is illegal.
But, the attack was because of strike of trucks.
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On Tue, 13 May 2008 03:32:43 -0700 (PDT), pavel <...@yahoo.com
On 13 Май, 04:35, ADR <...@yahoo.com
These incidents DID happen, as can be confirmed by the Greek press:
Kathimerini, May 13th, 2008, Athens
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_pol itics_2_13/05/2008_96497
According to the Macedonian law, the trucks and all vehicles that are
leaving
the Republic of Macedonia HAVE to bear the international sign for
their
nationality - in the case (MK). Until now there have been not ANY
Greek
objections agains the usage of that sign in Greek territory. Instead
of
attacking innocent drivers folowing their national laws, the Greeks
could
protest in the Macedonian embassy in Athens, if they find the sign
(MK)
inappropriate. In every case that is a question between the states NOT
between their citizens.
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On Tue, 13 May 2008 16:52:17 -0700 (PDT), ADR <...@yahoo.com
On May 13, 3:32 am, pavel <...@yahoo.com
Pavel,
I agree. Whatever the provocation, beating people is crude and
inexcusable. Period. Personal attacks of violence should not be
allowed. If the sign was not really allowed, it was up to the Greek
police to intervene, not individual citizens beating up drivers. This
is the case in which appropriate civil life has broken down and the
perpetrators should be arrested and charged. I know that others here
have offered excuses. It may be that the FYROM drivers were
provocative, but this still does not excuse violence. Period. No
excuses.
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On Wed, 14 May 2008 12:09:26 +0300, "Panayiotis" <...@hotmail.com
======================================
"And Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece."
(Strabo VII, Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones])
======================================
"ADR" <...@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
On May 13, 3:32 am, pavel <...@yahoo.com
Pavel,
I agree. Whatever the provocation, beating people is crude and
inexcusable. Period. Personal attacks of violence should not be
allowed. If the sign was not really allowed, it was up to the Greek
police to intervene, not individual citizens beating up drivers. This
is the case in which appropriate civil life has broken down and the
perpetrators should be arrested and charged. I know that others here
have offered excuses. It may be that the FYROM drivers were
provocative, but this still does not excuse violence. Period. No
excuses.
=============================================
ADR,
1. Lately, Mr. Mitsotakis is trying to leave "a good name" for his
posterity, through interviews and distorting political events, such as
"apostassia" of July 1965 and his feud with Georgios and Andreas
Papandreou, as well as Constantine Karamanlis (about the use/non-use of the
name Macedonia). It was his initiative to call the newly-formed state as
"the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia". It was he, who said that in 10
years no one will remember the "Macedonia" issue. In his political lifetime,
he tried to play "soft", cordial and understanding, thus leaving immense
unsolved problems for the upcoming generations.
2. It was Andreas Papandreou, who established the embargo against FYROM,
which resulted in having FYROM change its flag and certain articles of its
constitution, and lead to the Interim Agreement of 1995. Greek proverb: Ke o
agios fovera theli.
3. I am afraid that some are trying to play and show how civilized and good
kids/men they are. All of us are against unprovoked violence. However, some
are not well informed and think that the Skopjans are playing the game on
equal terms. Incidents like the attack on our Liaison Office building in
Skopje, or swasticas and mocking of our PM, do not count for them. They play
it civilized and understanding!
4. The incidents with the drivers, should make us suspicious. Why did these
happen now (elections in FYROM)? Ms Papadopoulou, our Liaison Officer in
Skopje, stated that the FYROMians reported the incidents to their government
in Skopje and not to the Greek authorities. This makes it, she said, very
difficult to trace the perpetrators. President Cervenkovski put things to
their correct perspective.
5. Sooner or later, a new embargo will be inevitable. How harsh or what form
it will have, time will show. It all depends on the Skopjans.
Panayiotis
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On Wed, 14 May 2008 14:41:25 -0300, Nashton <...@na.ca
Couldn't agree more with your analysis.
This event and the way it was handled is extremely suspicious and I
would take this with a truckload of salt, if not more.
I wasn't aware that this incident wasn't reported to the Greek
authorities. Does it necessarily mean that it didn't happen? Of course
not. OTOH, it sure adds credence to the fact that there isn't a smidgen
of truth to it, though.
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On Wed, 14 May 2008 23:59:56 +0300, "Panayiotis" <...@hotmail.com
--
======================================
"And Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece."
(Strabo VII, Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones])
======================================
-------------------------------------------------- ---------------------
"I would rather be a servant in the House of the Lord
than to sit in the seats of the mighty".
[Alben W. Barkley, U.S. Vice-President]
"Nashton" <...@news.aliant.net...
Skopje
14 May 2008 Skopje _ The abuse of Macedonian truckers in Greece are in
dividual incidents which do not reflect Athens policy, Greeces envoy to
Skopje claims.
http://balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/10154/
The cases should be solved discreetly, Greek ambassador Alexandra
Papadopoulou told Macedonian President Branko Crvenkovski at the meeting of
European Ambassadors in Skopje on Tuesday.
She said Greek police are already investigating the cases but pointed out
that the probes would have been more efficient if the truckers had reported
the incidents while still in Greece.
Last week Macedonian police received a series of reports from returning
truck drivers from Greece that they were allegedly stopped by unknown groups
on Greek highways and under the threat of violence were forced to remove any
vehicle markings with the letters MK while being filmed and verbally
abused.
On Monday Skopje officially protested to Athens and Crvenkovski condemned
the incident during a meeting with EU ambassadors in Macedonia saying that a
solution to the long standing name row between the two countries can not
be reached by applying power and pressure from Greece.
Relations between the two countries sunk to a new low in April after Greece
vetoed Macedonias invitation to join NATO due to the unresolved name row.
Athens is pressing Skopje to stop using the name Republic of Macedonia
claiming it implies Skopjes territorial claims to Greeces own northern
province of the same name. Read more at
http://balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/9100
During the recent two months the row has stalled most of the tourist traffic
between the two countries and also affected trade ties. Trains from
Macedonias national railway company, Macedonian Railroads and the national
air carrier Macedonian Airlines have been banned from entering Greek
territory.
On the other side, Greek companies operating in Macedonia are seeing an
increasing boycott of their products by Macedonia citizens.
The 15 year-long United Nations sponsored talks between the two neighbours
have so far been in vain.
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On Mon, 12 May 2008 11:36:41 +0300, "Panayiotis" <...@hotmail.com
======================================
"And Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece."
(Strabo VII, Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones])
======================================
"Krater Makedonski" <...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Zhivko,
Probably you got your information from:
http://macedoniaonline.eu/
QUOTE
"Second attack on Macedonian citizens in Greece. This time a father L.S.
(67) and his son D.S. (29) returning with their truck to Macedonia were
attacked on the road between Kavala and Salonika, it was reported by the
Macedonian Ministry of Interior.
According to the report, their truck was forcibly stopped by three passenger
vehicles. Five Greeks got out of their cars with metal bars and attempted
to break the windshield of the Macedonian's truck".
UNQUOTE
Well, Zhivko? Have you compared the two texts? One from your Ministry of
Interior and the other, yours, as it was "embroidered" by your excellency.
A father and a son, totalling two (2), were transformed to three (3), and
the five (5) Greeks became fifty (50). It is not that bad to tell a lie now
and then, but telling stupid lies and being caught is a misery!
Poor Zhivko! Try to find another job. Remember your friend Ilinden? We miss
him. Soon we will say the same thing for you.
Panayiotis
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On Tue, 13 May 2008 10:47:00 +1000, "Krater Makedonski" <...@optusnet.com.au
"Panayiotis" <...@volcano1.grnet.gr...
Just a "technical" error on my part, otherwise the information is correct.
The first attack by around 50 "brave" "Greeks" was at Larissa. The second by
5 "brave" "Greeks" was at Kavalla. Below is a report (in Macedonian) from
Utrinski Vesnik, although the reports which I read were from the a1 tv
website.
The point here is that the NAZI greek propaganda is producing "brave" NAZIS
of the above type where they will attack innocent civilians.
http://www.utrinski.com.mk/?ItemID=38A52002376F58 43AEBFE66A2714ABC0
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On Wed, 14 May 2008 00:50:13 +0300, "Panayiotis" <...@hotmail.com
======================================
"And Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece."
(Strabo VII, Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones])
======================================
"Krater Makedonski" <...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Zhivko,
Do you believe whatever you read? I don't.
What about the "brave Skopjans", a few years ago, that killed 6 Iraqi
refugees, in order to prove that FYROM was participating in the
antiterrorism campaign. Incited by the government, not privately, as could
the cases of Kavala or Larissa be, which I do not know if they really
happened
or not. The Pakistani case, however, was a real one and the perpetrators
were brought to justice, including a government minister!
Panayiotis
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