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SO LETS POSE A 4th of July CHALLENGE: Spin a globe. Take almost any area in Latin America, Africa, Asia, or the Middle East and try to find a place where you could not Mass Murder by the USA—or even worse—record of American brutality, murder, and horror. From Central Asia to southern Africa; from Central America and the Caribbean to Indonesia; from the Congo to Southeast Asia…and beyond.

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:33:51 -0700 (PDT), skepticl1 <...@aol.com

SO LET US POSE A CHALLENGE: Spin a globe. Take almost any area in
Latin America, Africa, Asia, or the Middle East and try to find a
place where you could not find a similar—or even worse—record of
American brutality, murder, and horror as we have sketched here. From
Central Asia to southern Africa; from Central America and the
Caribbean to Indonesia; from the Congo to Southeast Asia…and beyond.

Or take U.S. history over the past 100 or so years, and show us a time—
just a 10-year stretch even—when the U.S. has NOT been murdering
people wholesale, or financially and politically sponsoring such
murder (either through puppets or proxies), or carrying out military
aggression or occupation, in one or another oppressed nation. We don’t
think you can.

A July 4th Challenge
In 1890 the U.S. Army massacred 300 Lakota Native American people at
Wounded Knee.

In 1945 the U.S. dropped atomic bombs on the Japanese cities of
Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing more than 200,000 people.

In 1968 U.S. soldiers massacred 400-500 unarmed people in the
Vietnamese village of My Lai.

In 2004 U.S. troops laid siege to the Iraqi city of Fallujah, killing
several thousand Iraqi civilians.

The very names of these places: WOUNDED KNEE... HIROSHIMA... MY LAI...
FALLUJAH.... symbolize for many the long and bloody history of the
United States. And there are many, many, MORE dates, places, and death
counts... that can be added to this list.

*****

On November 19, 2005, nine-year-old Eman Waleed was at home with her
family in the Iraqi village of Haditha when U.S. Marines busted in the
door. “The Americans came into the room where my father was praying
and shot him,” she told the BBC. “They went to my grandmother and
killed her too. I heard an explosion. They threw a grenade under my
grandfather’s bed.” Only Eman and her little brother were left alive
in her family. Next door the Marines killed eight people, including
four children. In another house U.S. soldiers dragged four men into a
closet and shot them. After five hours of such terror on Haditha, U.S.
troops had murdered 24 people.

Such war crimes are not an “aberration” or “isolated incident.” The
U.S. war on Iraq was based on blatant lies. This is a war to
strengthen U.S. empire and domination. And from the very beginning, it
has been all about kicking down doors, murdering people, air strikes
on villages, leveling whole cities, and torturing and killing
prisoners.

In one country, in only five years, think of all the human carnage and
social destruction caused by the United States: More than a million
Iraqis dead. Four million driven from their homes.

Think about how the criminal nature of this SYSTEM goes back to its
very roots: Founded on exploitation, including the vast wealth stolen
from the labor of millions and millions of Africans kidnapped from
their homes, packed into slave ships, and forced under the whip to
work in America’s plantations. The near-genocide of the Native
Americans. The spreading of this country from “sea to shining sea”
through a war of aggression that robbed Mexico of huge expanses of
territory.

Think about how throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, before Iraq
and Afghanistan, the United States invaded, colonized, occupied,
plundered, and dominated people and countries all around the world,
including: Mexico, the Philippines, Dominican Republic, Panama, Korea,
Vietnam, Haiti, and Somalia.

Today, the U.S. sits atop a global system of capitalism-imperialism.
And the very character and workings of this SYSTEM brings war, death,
hunger, brutality, and humiliation for the vast majority of humanity
throughout the planet. And there are millions of victims of this
system right here in the “belly of the beast”:

The whole planet sees how the U.S. government abandoned the people of
New Orleans before and after Hurricane Katrina and ever since. Look at
how immigrants are labeled “criminals,” hunted down and rounded up in
Gestapo-style raids at workplaces and neighborhoods. Look at how this
system’s police routinely beat and murder people, especially Black
youth.

This whole blood-soaked setup is protected by the most powerful,
destructive military force ever in history. A military built off the
great wealth extracted through exploitation in the “homeland” and all
over the world. A military with bases in 130 countries. A military
that has brought, and continues to bring, immense death and
destruction around the globe. A military with thousands of nuclear
weapons that give the U.S. the power to annihilate whole countries, or
even the whole world, with the touch of the nuclear button.

****

This issue of Revolution will be out around the Fourth of July, a time
when a lot of people—including a lot of progressive people—will get
sentimental about the “promise of America.” Many of them will admit—
they will even target and oppose—some of the crimes and horrors that
have been carried out by this country and this government, and some of
the ways that the profit-driven system of capitalism-imperialism
viciously exploits people. They may criticize the daily ongoing
repression and suppression in American society, and point to the
hypocrisy of politicians of all stripes. But all too many will still
return to, even cling to, a sort of bedrock belief that these horrors
are somehow anomalies—departures from the real essence of America,
departures from its “democratic ideals.”

SO LET US POSE A CHALLENGE: Spin a globe. Take almost any area in
Latin America, Africa, Asia, or the Middle East and try to find a
place where you could not find a similar—or even worse—record of
American brutality, murder, and horror as we have sketched here. From
Central Asia to southern Africa; from Central America and the
Caribbean to Indonesia; from the Congo to Southeast Asia…and beyond.

Or take U.S. history over the past 100 or so years, and show us a time—
just a 10-year stretch even—when the U.S. has NOT been murdering
people wholesale, or financially and politically sponsoring such
murder (either through puppets or proxies), or carrying out military
aggression or occupation, in one or another oppressed nation. We don’t
think you can.

If we are right, then can you really tell yourself (or others) that
this repeated and pervasive behavior is NOT systemic? Can you tell
yourself that each of these mountains of outrages is an exception, a
case of a “fundamentally good society” gone astray from its promise
and ideals? When atrocities are that repeated and that widespread and,
frankly, that unmatched on a world scale—can you tell yourself that
there is NOT something at the root of it, at the foundation, that
drives the madness forward?

Or must you not instead confront the reality, fully, and set about
analyzing the problem…and finding the solution?

Note to Readers: Download and print the poster version of the front
page graphic, available online at revcom.us.

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On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 16:55:33 -1000, JW <...@clearwire.net

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:33:51 -0700 (PDT), skepticl1
<...@aol.com
Stuff the globe up your ass, sit in a chair and spin yourself.
Anywhere you fall, there'll be a grease spot.

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 21:40:26 -0700 (PDT), skepticl1 <...@aol.com

On 30 Jun, 19:55, JW <...@clearwire.net
The humble clatter of bed pans, the sulfer smell of the excrement of
sick people and 'poof' it's the Nurse John Walsh the enema fairy. Run!

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 06:45:55 -0400, Fred <...@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca



I must say I found Skeptic's arguments more convincing on this point. Of
course, he has the truth to work with.

--
Peace,
Fred
(Remove FFFf from my email address to reply by email).

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 05:22:22 -1000, JW <...@clearwire.net

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 06:45:55 -0400, Fred <...@fredwilliamsFFFf.cawrote:


He's full of shit and so are you.

On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 06:08:26 -0700 (PDT), oldwifetale <...@yahoo.com

On Jul 1, 3:45 am, Fred <...@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
It's good to see that the 'Devotees of Karl' have each other's backs
with their badly mangled versions of 'truth'. Maybe you should have
your manifestos leatherbound so you can thump them at the pulpit. A
little more hellfire and damnation might help too.

Let me know if you need any more marketing tips.




On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:38:52 -0400, Fred <...@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca


Whether you use name calling or lies, you still have nothing of substance
to say. You don't address the issues. Cuba has not enriched their people,
true, but that was never the intent. They intended to *empower* their
people and that they have done! Work on the necessities first and see that
everyone is taken care of. *That* they have done and done it very well.
Cuba has the best health care system in the world and a very high standard
of education. No one is homeless in Cuba! Not one person! Not one child!
What other country in the world can say that? That's what socialism is
about, not how many colour TVs do some people have, nor how many hummers do
people on the block own. How does a society treat the poorest people among
themselves? That's the first question to ask.

--
Peace,
Fred
(Remove FFFf from my email address to reply by email).

On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 08:05:52 -0700 (PDT), Sydney Diego <...@email.com

On Jul 1, 7:38 am, Fred <...@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
No, first question to ask is why do so many Cubans try and leave their
island paradise to come to the mean and nasty ol' US ?



On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 11:20:37 -0700 (PDT), oldwifetale <...@yahoo.com

On Jul 1, 7:38 am, Fred <...@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
I haven't used name calling OR lies. You're 'pushing' communism like
it's a religion, and everyone needs redemption. I'm just calling it as
i see it. However, when it comes to name calling, you and your
comrades take the cake!

But i am nothing if not 'fair', so i'll "address an issue" here for
your edification, Fred. And then perhaps *you* can address the issues
that i have brought up repeatedly, such as forced relocations,
assigned jobs, loss of individuality and individual rights, removal of
geographic boundaries (and other boundaries), confiscation of private
property by the state, and so on.

So take this little 'snippet' of S's post:

----"Such war crimes are not an “aberration” or “isolated incident.”
The U.S. war on Iraq was based on blatant lies. This is a war to
strengthen U.S. empire and domination. And from the very beginning, it
has been all about kicking down doors, murdering people, air strikes
on villages, leveling whole cities, and torturing and killing
prisoners."----

Certainly i will not justify my goverment's actions when they are not
constitutional. However, i can't tolerate accusations coming from an
equally guilty 'party' without pointing out the sheer hypocrisy, and
there's my first 'issue' to be addressed. War crimes and treatment of
political prisoners. Sure, sounds good.

So... compare the above snippet from 'S' to the following little
snippets. Naturally, since you are coming from an extremist position,
i will counter with 'snippets' from randomly selected countering
positions:

From PBS:

"Guevara's first assignment was to oversee executions at an infamous
prison, La Cabaña. Between 1959 and 1963, approximately 500 men were
killed under his watch. Many individuals imprisoned at La Cabaña,
including human rights activist Armando Valladares, allege that
Guevara took a personal interest in the interrogation, torture, and
execution of political prisoners."

http://www.fidelcastro.co.uk/?page_id=6

Military Units to Aid Production, or UMAP’s were labor camps
established in 1965, according to Che Guevara, for “people who have
committed crimes against revolutionary morals” as well as Castro’s
concept of “social deviants,” including homosexuals and AIDS victims,
in order to work “counter-revolutionary” influences out of certain
segments of the population.

http://trenblindado.com/Story.html

"After Castro took power, Che Guevara was placed in charge of the
military fort known as La Cabaña. While there he supervised and
personally participated in the torture and execution by firing squad
of hundreds of Cubans."

http://www.conservapedia.com/Fidel_Castro

"The process of obtaining permanent power, was a dramatic, traumatic
and bloody. One of Castro's exiled opponents describes it this way:

""The castro regime came to power by deception and terror, resulting
in what can only be described as a state of war against the Cuban
people. Executions, labor camps, forced re-locations and exile, and
the imposition of a repressive military police force to exercise
control over civilian society.""

http://www.nathanielturner.com/fidelcastro.htm

"The early days of the revolutionary government were marked by
wholesale arrests, trials, and executions by firing squads of Batista
supporters. Replying to criticisms of the executions from the United
states and elsewhere, Fidel reminded his critics of the atrocities
committed by the Batista regime and declared that the revolutionary
courts would remain until ‘all criminals” were tried."




Oh really? Is that the first question to ask?

Pop. Cuba = appx. 11,000,000.
Pop. USA (according to the 'cia world factbook') = 303,824,646

Now that Castro has successfully *ruled* a little nation (aka Big Fish
in Little Pond), i guess he would be qualified to *rule* a big city in
the usa - all he'd have to do is disguise his communist actions by
calling them republican 'bills' and 'legislation', then do a marketing
campaign. He could probably get away with confiscating private
property by putting it under the heading of "Eminent Domain". Here's
an idea! He could kick all the working people out of their homes and
give the homes to the homeless! Then the able-bodied working people
could be sent to the labor camps. Perfect! Surely Castro would be as
qualified as the Terminator who has an entire state and - so far - has
neglected to pump anyone up.

Yeah Fred, i can see how that is the first question to ask.

On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 10:48:26 -0700 (PDT), skepticl1 <...@aol.com

On 1 Jul, 07:38, Fred <...@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
And compare Cuba (which did all its accomplishments ringed with US
warships and a lethal blockage and embargo) with the United States
Model in the Caribbean, which is Haiti. Haiti, where people have to
eat mud cookies to starve off hunger pains, and where people live in
tin shacks with a single bare light bulb hanging on a naked wire as
their only possession. Haiti, where US and Canadian death squads fire .
50 caliber machine guns into poor ghettos, with a slug three inches
long to indiscrimately crew up neighborhoods. Haiti where the United
Snakes just kidnapped the elected leader, so they could be replaced
with Pappa Doc type US thug rulers AGAIN.

On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 12:41:15 -0700 (PDT), Sydney Diego <...@email.com

On Jul 1, 10:48 am, skepticl1 <...@aol.com
And again.......why to this day do Cubans try and defect from their
island paradise at every available opportunity ?



Discussion Title: SO LETS POSE A 4th of July CHALLENGE: Spin a globe. Take almost any area in Latin America, Africa, Asia, or the Middle East and try to find a place where you could not Mass Murder by the USA—or even worse—record of American brutality, murder, and horror. From Central Asia to southern Africa; from Central America and the Caribbean to Indonesia; from the Congo to Southeast Asia…and beyond.
Title Keywords: LETS  POSE  July  CHALLENGE:  Spin  globe.  Take  almost  area  Latin  America,  Africa,  Asia,  Middle  East  find  place  where  could  Mass  Murder  USA—or  even  worse—record  American  brutality,  murder,  horror.  From  Central  Asia  southern  Africa;  from  Central  America  Caribbean  Indonesia;  from  Congo  Southeast  Asia…and  beyond.