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On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:51:38 -0700, "Russ \(www.SBITS.Biz\)" <...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz
Other than you are a Q@# and you don't know what beer to drink?
Just kidding.
I would post what I just sent Mick
But his face would turn red :)
Done, Bro, the Public Opinion is on the way.
Russ
--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
World Wide Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
"SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
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On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:59:01 -0700, Colin <...@discussions.microsoft.com
On it's way mate.
Regards Colin.
>
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On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:21:08 -0700, "Gregg Hill" <greggmhill at please do not spam me at yahoo dot com
I have gained knowledge from your posts, but any attorney worth his salt
will not give a hoot about "public opinion" nor would it stand up in court.
What happened to make you ask for our opinions?
Gregg Hill
"SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
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On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:40:10 -0700, "Gregg Hill" <greggmhill at please do not spam me at yahoo dot com
Where are you located? I know a good litigator in Southern CA.
Gregg Hill
"SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
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On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 19:04:49 -0700, "Russ \(www.SBITS.Biz\)" <...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz
Mick is in Australia... just a slight distance from Southern CA...
I talked with him last night basically someone asked him to do something
which took a long time (When He wanted to do another Option)
and they blame him for Time/Loss....
Russ
--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
World Wide Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
Get Help Now! http://www.crossloop.com/SBITSdotBiz
"Gregg Hill" <greggmhill at please do not spam me at yahoo dot commessage news...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
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On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 19:42:06 -0700, "Gregg Hill" <greggmhill at please do not spam me at yahoo dot com
"Russ (www.SBITS.Biz)" <...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
I guess my local attorney won't do him a lot of good! I can hear Gilda
Radner now..."never mind...."
Ah, the old "I want you, the paid professional, to do it MY way, and when it
goes wrong, I'll blame YOU" trick! I have had people try to get me to do
that, even when I was a Ford mechanic. I made them sign the repair order in
three places stating that they wanted a particular job done and did not want
diagnosis because their mechanic told them something was wrong that actually
was not. It gave me protection and let me laugh when they tried to get the
diagnosis for free afterwards.
I feel for you, Mick.
Gregg Hill
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On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 20:37:03 +1000, "SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <...@your.nellie
OK, this is not the 1st question raised by my post.
FACTS:
New client who I thought would benefit from SBS.
Along with their data files they also brought a bit of IT support along to
'help set things up'.
I have implemented SBS 2003 by what I consider 'best practice'.
Several things have gone wrong resulting in more pain than should be
necessary. 'someone' has undone several things I did.
The end user is correct 'it shouldn't be this difficult'.
I have muck on my face because the end user has been subject to differing
'approaches', resulting in downtime. I believe part of this is that I am a
new face, they are more familiar with their own people who do not do what I
do (SBS).
I have today been told that it is not necessary to darken their doorway
again.
I have not submitted the several 'Public Opinions' I have received to them.
They have agreed to pay setup costs.
I am still really peeved because the client is suggesting 'OH well, you did
your best, you just weren't good enough'.
I thank everyone who responded. (if I missed emailing you back, and I'm
pretty sure I didn't, sorry)
"Gregg Hill" <greggmhill at please do not spam me at yahoo dot commessage news...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
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On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 11:05:02 -0700, "Gregg Hill" <greggmhill at please do not spam me at yahoo dot com
(Intentional sarcasm here) To a new client, they have no idea if **your**
best practice is worth a damn. Heck, everyone sets up a server according to
what **they think** is best practice, often with nothing to back it up
except for their Windows NT4 and Windows 98 experience. One guy's best
practice is my, "Why the heck did he do that?!"
HOWEVER (no more sarcasm, at least for a while!), in your case, I say that
as long as your "best practice" parallels Microsoft's recommendations and
those of recognized industry gurus (renowned authors like Harry, Charlie,
etc), I think you have no problem. I had a new client do something similar,
blaming me for everything from his web site not showing his surveillance
cameras any more to the sun not rising on time. Neither had anything to do
with me.
I had done ONE thing on his server a week prior to the visit where he
started blaming me for things, which was to install LogMeIn for remote
access. On my second visit is when all the accusations started. I proved to
him that the ActiveX lawsuit is what stopped (about four months prior to my
first visit) his cameras from loading into his web page *that was not even
on his server* but hosted elsewhere. I dealt with his attitude for another
few weeks (because a very good client of mine had referred me to him to set
up something for her) and then fired him. He even used Google Earth to bring
up the address on my business card and defiantly state, "That's not your
business, it's a UPS Store in a shopping center!" I **so enjoyed** looking
at it, then saying as sarcastically as I could get away with, "Really? Wow!
That's probably why it says right here, 'Shipping/mailing address:' on my
card. Hmm! Imagine that!" And then I went back to work. I should have headed
for the door. I don't normally talk to clients like that, but that jerk
deserved it. Had he been a fresh new client with no ties to any of my other
clients, I would have walked out immediately.
I know your ego is bruised, but about the only thing you can do is write up
every major step of what you did (or at least the ones they questioned), and
provide a Microsoft article to back it up, proving that the method you used
is an industry standard and recognized/recommended method. Then show that
documentation to the client. For example, you set up DNS to point only to
the SBS server itself and no ISP DNS servers and have the ISP DNS servers as
forwarders. Well, we all know that is how it should be done, but why? Prove
it, I say! Well, I just searched MS and came up with a nicely titled
article: "Best practices for DNS client settings in Windows 2000 Server and
in Windows Server 2003" at http://support.microsoft.com/kb/825036/en-us.
Another good one: "Frequently asked questions about Windows 2000 DNS and
Windows Server 2003 DNS" http://support.microsoft.com/kb/291382/en-us. Heck,
that last one was good...I'm going to keep it!
A few of those proof-of-concept articles showing that your methods parallel
those of the manufacturer, and delivered to the client, will at least let
them know that you do indeed have knowledge and experience, and you have
Microsoft's methods standing behind you. If the client has a reasonably open
mind, he will see that you DO know what you are doing, and may be open to
accepting that the problems were not your fault after all. That may give you
enough piece of mind to go home and lick your wounds, pick yourself back up,
hold your head high, and say, "Your loss, not mine...jerk!"
Going forward, if you even remotely expect similar challenges, state clearly
(preferably in writing) that you use Microsoft documented methods in
compliance with industry standards, and **any attempt on their part to alter
those practices** will void any responsibility on your part. I actually have
a similar statement in a contract I am going to have all new clients sign.
At the particular client I mentioned at the beginning, I knew I might have
trouble, so before starting any changes, I exported all the Event Viewer
logs, screen shots of misconfigured DNS pointing to ISP servers, saved
output from dcdiag and netdiag tests, etc. I did end up using those when he
got ugly, and then I fired his sorry butt. If I had not gotten the proof of
his system's condition ahead of time, I may have been facing the attorney
with whom he threatened me.
It is getting to the point where we need to document every setting in case
some schmoe's college kid gets onto the server and sets it up according to
his buddy's girlfriend's dog's method.
I agree with you that you are the new face. They don't know you, and they
have experience and trust with their current people. Even though it may be
unfounded trust, it still trumps a new face almost every time, especially
because those people get to stay at the job and spin their side of the story
to the boss until their poop smells like roses.
I feel for you! Hang in there, and don't let it get to you too much. My wife
always tells me, "Just consider the source." If you respect the source, do
the write-up and proof. If not, well, time to move on. Egos do heal!
Gregg Hill
"SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
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On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 21:50:32 +1000, "Jane C" <...@invalid.iinet.net.au
"SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
And I guess that is where the probem really started? Was their "IT support"
a Minesweeper Consultant and Solitaire Expert with no idea about SBS?
As one should.
It probably wouldn't have been if the 'someone' had been removed from the
equation....... ;)
This just confirms that their own people are clueless :)
Take the money and run. Fast ;)
Hah! They don't know what they're missing. Too late now. Their loss.
<grumbleThe SBS2003 sytem at my own workplace leaves a lot to be desired. I'm not
employed in an IT capacity (I'm paralegal) but just wait until I get my
hands on the IT support guy..... grrrr. The system wasn't set up by an SBSC
unfortunately :(
</grumble
--
Jane, not plain ;) 64 bit enabled :-)
Batteries not included. Braincell on vacation ;-)
MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
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On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 11:13:35 -0700, "Gregg Hill" <greggmhill at please do not spam me at yahoo dot com
Oh, good grief, Jane! I read your "Minesweeper Consultant and Solitaire
Expert" comment several times before it clicked that the letters are MCSE.
Dang, that's a good one!
Thank you for the laugh!
Gregg Hill
"Jane C" <...@microsoft.com...
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On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 11:24:07 -0700, "Russ \(www.SBITS.Biz\)" <...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz
You also have to deal with the possibility that the person sabotaged you.
(Because he didn't know SBS and felt like a idiot.)
I lost one client that had someone else come in and said what I did was
wrong.
So 6 months later they call me back and ask me to fix what the other person
screwed up.
They've been my client ever since.
The only hope you can see in this is they finally realize the other person
is wrong.
But As you know there are people that are MASTERS at BS
and will say anything to make themselves sound good and what the do sound
GOD LIKE!
Russ
--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
World Wide Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
Get Help Now! http://www.crossloop.com/SBITSdotBiz
"SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
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On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 11:44:33 -0700, "Gregg Hill" <greggmhill at please do not spam me at yahoo dot com
And that is where really good documentation of what we have done comes into
play. I left it set at X and here is the proof, now it is set to Z...I did
not do it. May help to prove the sabotage.
Gregg Hill
"Russ (www.SBITS.Biz)" <...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
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On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 11:52:00 -0700, "Russ \(www.SBITS.Biz\)" <...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz
Well once a client has swallowed the hook line and sinker of a disreputable
IT person the only way to fix it is TIME.
Russ
--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
World Wide Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
Get Help Now! http://www.crossloop.com/SBITSdotBiz
"Gregg Hill" <greggmhill at please do not spam me at yahoo dot commessage news...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
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On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 13:02:20 -0700, "Gregg Hill" <greggmhill at please do not spam me at yahoo dot com
Let's hope Mick gets enough time!
Gregg
"Russ (www.SBITS.Biz)" <...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
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