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WSJ.com Forums :: View topic - Philly's War on the Boy Scouts
Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:02 am Post subject: Philly's War on the Boy Scouts (2 ratings)
this week's Cross Country column, "Philly's War on the Boy Scouts," by Kevin Ferris.
Remember
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Philly's War on the Boy Scouts (12 ratings)
I am glad to see this article, but deeply troubled by several things about the story.
First, while the Supreme Court of our land has upheld the rights of the Scouting organization to be who they are without coersion from others, cities like Philadelphia say this is not enough -- how sad.
Second, I am confident that the media would cover 20 activists protesting the Boy Scouts' presence, but they would ignore thousands of young men gathering in support of Scouting's ideals.
Finally, my older brother and I both attained Eagle Scout, as did my two older sons.
However, my brother died at 44 years old from AIDS.
His life for 15 years before his death was characterized by dangerous decisions, multiple partners, domestic violence, and chronic illness.
I could never have endorsed him as a leader in Scouting.
And he was an ordained minister in one of the largest church denominations in our country.
The Scouts have an obligation to young men to hold before them wise and solid models for life and leadership.
I pray they hold that line without caving in to cultural pressure.
Mike in Orlando
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Philly's War on the Boy Scouts (9 ratings)
As a resident of suburban Philadelphia my entire life, it is sad to see what decades of Democratic rule have done to a city I once loved.
Between the high wage tax, union domination and rising crime, I have left the city behind.
I rarely go there, and rarely miss it.
This attack on the Boy Scouts is just one more nail in the coffin of a once great city.
Reading this article and finding out that United Way has withdrawn support for the Boy Scouts only has hardened my negative view of that organization.
I give directly to the charities I support and resist the strongarming of UW.
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: Philly's War on the Boy Scouts (12 ratings)
Philly should be applauded for the anti-discrimination stand it has taken.
The Boy Scouts policy sends the message that discrimination is okay, well, it isn't.
Perhaps the real compromise is for the Pennsylvania Boy Scouts to withdraw from the national organization and offer similar programs which teach that discrimination is wrong.
Perhaps if enough chapters do that the national organization will be forced into the 21st century and amend their ways.
Terrell Brown
Minneapolis
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Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Philly's War on the Boy Scouts (10 ratings)
Good organizations sometimes do bad things;
Those things have to get altered before the organization can expect public support.
This is not the case in Mr.
Ferris editorial.
Here we have a bad organization that does good things.
Those are groups that should never get encouragement and support.
The “Boy Scouts of America” is a discriminatory organization and what makes things even worse – it deals with the education and the shaping of young minds.
Not standing up to them is accepting and taking part by omission in a discriminatory act.
For example, would Mr.
Ferris support financial aid to a “KKK” youth organization that keeps white boys off the street and away from drugs?
Acknowledge their teachings of values, hard work and fellowship among white men?
Would he support their drive for "engagement" with the white communities, helping the old and the needy whites?
And will he disregard their officially declared policy of - NO BLACKS OR JEWS ALLOWED!!
?
Maybe we can even send them to New Orleans to help rebuild houses of poor WHITE people who were damaged in hurricane Katrina… "You think we'd be embraced by city officials" a Klan master will tell a reporter, a white one needless to say, that will agree to listen.
The Nazi youth movement has done a lot of good for German's - As long as those were not German Jews.
The boy scouts of America are not the “Hitler Youth”.
That is if you care to make distinctions between discriminatory youth organizations.
I find them all dangerous and contaminating.
With in the 56,000 “Boys Scouts” in the region, how many of them are gay?
How would they feel when they will grow up to learn they are no longer welcome in the “Boy Scouts” anymore?
How many stayed out of this discriminatory organization all together?
And when they are "helping young boys, many without strong male figures in their lives" - do they mean a ‘non gay’ male figure?
Philly's war is not against the boys it’s against a discriminatory organization, one that shouldn’t be part of the education of our future leadership.
Those are not the kind of leaders our world needs;
Don't teach the leaders of the future hate and discrimination.
There is a need for other youth movements, one's with a positive message and not of hatred.
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Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: Philly's War on the Boy Scouts (8 ratings)
It's not an attack on the Boy Scouts per se---it's an attack on discrimination.
Imagine for a moment if the Boy Scouts were the same organization they are today---Scouts help clean up the park, keep kids of of trouble---all that, but excluded blacks from either joining or serving as Scoutmasters.
If you could understand why in that scenario the city would want to stop letting the Scouts have free rent, then you should also understand why the city's doing the same thing today.
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:30 am Post subject: Re: Philly's War on the Boy Scouts (4 ratings)
Making the City of Philadelphia’s decision all the more outrageous is the fact that the Boy Scouts built the building with their own money and gave it to the City in 1928.
The Scouts’ lease was “in perpetuity” for which they paid the City $1 per year.
Why should the Boy Scouts have to pay twice for their own building?
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:38 am Post subject: Re: Philly's War on the Boy Scouts (6 ratings)
I am proud to be an Eagle Scout and the toll this issue has taken on Scouting has saddened me.
To be clear, the primary issue here is the national organization's prohibition of gay adult leaders though the larger issue may include atheism and girls in Boy Scouts.
(Boys aren't so much identified by their sexuality, I think.) While I feel that gay leaders should be welcomed into troop leadership, the rallying argument of "discrimination" could easily be extended to the point of absurdity, e.g.
Girls in Boy Scouts.
This antagonism toward Boy Scouts involves something that is a little harder to put your finger on.
I recall widespread, positive media coverage of Scouting from when I was a Scout, something that you don't seem to see much anymore.
I don't think it's an exaggeration to say Scouting was wounded in what we call the culture wars.
Boy Scouts is a positive organization that contributes richly to countless young (and old) lives.
I am repelled by Eran Doron's comparison to Nazi youth.
Boy Scouts is not an anti-gay organization.
I recall no hate teachings from my days in Scouts and I think Scouting haters would be hard pressed to show that any has ever existed.
My Scouting troop was a collection of boys from different economic classes, races, and religions.
Our troop included first generation immigrants.
We all benefited from the experience.
Boy Scout teachings and values may be summarized succinctly by its Law: a Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent.
When you take away Scouting, there is nothing that is quite a substitute for it and society as a whole suffers.
Sports teams and clubs are similar, but nothing in my experience is quite comparable to this singular organization dedicated to making boys into better men.
With regard to the idea that governmental aid should not go to a "controversial" organization: have you ever reviewed, for example, controversial teachings in a university?
Who knows how many dollars have funded economic ideas that I, and many other small business owners in America, find an anathema?
There is a lot more better-funded "hatred" out there that I should love to see these champions of tolerance rail against.
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:45 am Post subject: Re: Philly's War on the Boy Scouts (9 ratings)
I am an Eagle scout and have watched the wars being waged between the Boy Scouts of America and well meaning city officials across the USA trying to end discrimination against the gay lifestyle.
I am not anti-gay but I believe one should apply the same level of common sense and intelligence as we do to other real life situations.
The scandals in the Catholic Church where gay men found a refuge from the scrutiny of the world to prey on young people should teach us a lesson.
Any parent would be uncomfortable with a heterosexual single adult man leading a group of 11 - 18 year old girls on overnight campouts and working with them one on one in merit badge like situations.
In a perfect world, maybe, but in this one it is just not wise.
Allowing gay men access to the scouting programs across the country is asking for trouble.
Not that all gay men would pervert their position of trust any more than all heterosexual single men would, but as we have seen it is far too common for us to ignore.
The gay rights movement and people that support it should fight their battles where it makes common sense, not where it will endanger even a handful of our precious young men and expose them to possible harm.
Robert Simpson
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Philly's War on the Boy Scouts (5 ratings)
Recently, Matt Foreman, outgoing Executive Director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force made the following statement.
" Internally, when these numbers come out, the 'established' gay community seems to have a collective shrug as if this isn't our problem.
Folks, with 70 percent of the people in this country living with HIV being gay or bi, we cannot deny that HIV is a gay disease.
We have to own that and face up to that."
Also, a little over a year ago, Lorri Jean, CEO of the Los Angeles-based Gay and Lesbian center, stated "HIV is a Gay Disease.
Own it. End it."
It is not discrimination by parents who do not want their young male children exposed to a lifestyle that is finally being recognized by the gay community as very dangerous.
It is not discrimination to be free to associate with those who agree with your opinion on these important matter, as sometimes they become life and death issues.
It is an outrage that the City of Philladelphia would tolerate such a punitive action that persecutes those groups that do not agree with the militant homosexual groups behind this action against the Boy Scouts.
It is a hateful and meanspirited action.
references -- see Virtue Online 2-17-08 "Washington: Top 'Gay" Organization Comes Clean: 'HIV is a Gay Disease'
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Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Philly's War on the Boy Scouts (5 ratings)
For so many of the homosexuals we hear from in the public square their definition of themselves has to do sex.
That's it. Surely, the Boy Scouts should be protected from such a one sided view and all that it implies.
Anne Mansfield
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Philly's War on the Boy Scouts
Too bad the Scouts cannot put a dollar amount on the programs they run and present a bill to the city for these programs run by volunteers.
The city would owe the scouts money.
Very shortsighted of the city.
Scout leaders go out of their way to protect the boys with 2 deep leadership and training to keep the boys safe.
They do many good public works for the city at no cost to the city.
How many boys would be in worse shape without the scouts?
The City Council should sell the land for a nominal fee since the scouts built and improved the building.
John Schmidt
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Philly's War on the Boy Scouts
The city fathers of Philly should also run out other groups that "discriminate" agains homosexual leadership in their ranks....i.e.
Muslim mosques, most protestant and catholic churches, and bring these institutions also into the 21st Century.
And if these awful institutions aren't willing to change, "Who needs 'em?"
Catholic Hospitals won't allow abortions to be performed in their facilities.
This is blatant discrimination.
Run them out of Philly.
Come to think of it, they should also eliminate (discriminatory) public facilities like lavatories.
Why can't girls use the boys room and vice versa?
And why shouldn't the US Sen.
Larry Craig types be able to solicit for homosexual activity in these lavatories??
Solicitation is just another form of speech, and shouldn't that be "free."
Health and Life insurance companies should also be run out of Philly.
They "discriminate" in their underwriting policies by excluding (discriminating against) people with pre existing conditions like AIDS/HIV from coverage.
Who needs companies that practice these pre 21st Century practices?
What the City of Brotherly Love needs is more Love!
That's why the city fathers should immediately take all necessary steps to recruit the National Man Boy Love Association to establish their international headquarters in Philly.
Establish, once and for all to see, the shining beacon of public virtue that can only be Philadelphia.
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: Philly's War on the Boy Scouts (2 ratings)
I've got an idea.
If you like the Boy Scouts, send them a check.
I'm going to paraphrase Ben Franklin: "If a private group is good, it will support itself.
When it needs government handouts, it's not good."
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Philly's War on the Boy Scouts (3 ratings)
One fact that many over look is that the Boy Scouts, like the Catholic Church, has had many lawsuits filed over child sexual molestation because they had gay leaders and were not aware of this.
I know personally of an instance in 1975 of a gay Catholic priest who served as a Scoutmaster and was removed from service by the church because of sexual molestation of one of the scouts.
This ban is an attempt by the BSA to protect the youth from such leaders and the organization from expensive lawsuits.
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