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Introduction of Canon 1000D: putting XXD series to a high level?: Canon EOS 40D/30D/20D/10D Forum: Digital Photography Review
Hello,
What do you think of this potential Canon strategy: by introducing a 1000D they span their crop dSLR series form low-end to high-end.
It looks like the 450D has been set at a higher level than previous XXXD models.
It competes almost with the 40D in term of "flashy features" (liveview AF, Mpixels, ...), Prices are also very near.
On the other hand, the rumors of a 1000D at entry level, it will be a bit below 400D and a whole step below 450D.
To complete the crop dSLR and differentiate from 450D, Canon have to push a little the XXD serie toward Nikon D300.
We can expect that 50D will be a high end crop, competing with D300 or future Nikon (if they can produce a new one in the next two years).
Therefore Canon is leaving little space in the crop DLSR market if they come with a 1000D and higher level 50D that competes with Nikon D300.
With their low price, Nikon is under strong pressure in this area.
Nikon will have to release models at a higher rate to keep up.
We will see, what do you think ?
Best,
MArc
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I think the 350D is still for sale in stores, a fantastic entry level DSLR for about 400$.
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Quote: :
> I think the 350D is still for sale in stores, a fantastic entry level
>
DSLR for about 400$.
Correct, but 90% of the buyers is not well informed, and will buy the newest model, and not a 3 years old model.
So, canon could take the 350D, change the MP of the sensor and say it's a brand new 1000D.
Because they need marketing also, and it's at least strange to start a marketing campaign like "Are you ready for your next step?
Step into the DSLR world, buy our camera that is older than any other of our competitors."
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LOL, I would hope that anyone wanting to step into the dslr world would do a bit of research before taking the plunge - this isn't like making an impromptu visit to your neighborhood futureshop and walking out with a $200 p&s!
On a side note, in my area the 40D non-kit costs around $1350 plus tax, and the 450D will make a $900 dent in one's pocket - that to me is still a considerable price difference, so I'm not sure why some would say that the 450D costs almost the same as the 40D.
And just because the 450D has many of the so-called "flashy" features included on the 40D, it doesn't put them in the same class of camera, does it?
The 450D in my mind makes an excellent entry level camera.
Granted, at the moment, the 350D costs considerably less, and can still be found, but to me it lacks some features that I'd consider essential, even in an entry level camera.
Namely, the continuous shooting mode is much improved in the 450D, and the larger LCD makes reviewing images on the go a bit easier, if not enitrely ideal, yet.
Just my 2 cents.
--
http://solobs.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/solemnobserver/
http://www.meng-chieh.fotopic.net/
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How do you figure the 450D's continuous shooting is vastly better then the 350D?
They're actually about the same (at least in RAW).
The 350D shoots 3fps with a buffer depth of 6 shots.
The 450D shoots 3.5 with a depth of 6.
Not much of a difference to me.
To me (though I own neither) the major advantage the 450D might have over the 350D is a better view finder and better focusing systmen.
To me at least live view is a non-issue (I've yet to use it on my 40D).
The extra resolution might provide a little more detail, but the 350D never suffered from lack of IQ and it's higher ISO shooting might still be better.
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To me, it seems that for DSLR makers, the absolutely most important part of the market is the very lowest end.
The "entry level".
I've read that the P&S market is so cut-throat, with so many players and such fierce competition, that nobody makes much money at that level.
As a consumer, you really get a LOT for your money with the good P&S cameras available now.
As a manufacturer, competition is fierce, and profits are slim.
So the camera makers are trying to guide more and more people into the DSLR market where they can really ream us ...
Oops, I mean really make good money on fancier lenses, bodies, and accessories.
Since almost nobody switches brands once they've got an investment in lenses and accessories, it is absolutely vital that the DSLR makers grab the entry-level shooters right away.
To that end, it makes sense for the camera makers to really concentrate heavily on making the best, most competitive, and cheapest entry-level DSLRs possible.
This is the front lines of the battle.
If a customer buys a Nikon, an Oly, or a Sony DSLR to begin with, then that customer may be lost forever.
You MUST get new converts to your system to keep things rolling for the future.
So I would expect to see very cut-throat introductions on a regular basis at the "entry level" from all of the DSLR makers.
Canon is very smart to offer a continuum of lower-end models.
The very least expensive DSLRs WILL lure buyers away from P&Ss.
The customer goes into a store, just looking for a good digital camera.
As they browse, they see that there is a DSLR that costs very little more than a good P&S.
At that point, if they don't mind the size, it's pretty easy to convince them to get the DSLR instead of a similarly priced high-end P&S.
So now you've got a convert to your system.
And as long as you don't really let them down in some way, you've probably got a customer for life.
With P&S cameras, there is no brand loyalty because you're not married to any system by accessories and lenses.
OK, but Canon also offers incremental steps upwards from the 1000D.
And that's smart too.
There are people who will jump into the DSLR world at any point.
If someone is already interested, and they've got a bit more money to spend, then they may well just buy into the DSLR game at a higher level to begin with.
And people like to upgrade at times.
So it really is smart to offer many different levels from which to choose.
I think Canon and the others are very smart to offer excellent models at all levels.
Getting a person to buy your brand to begin with is a lot easier than getting people to jump-ship later.
--
Jim H.
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I personally doubt Canon will be this innovative, but it would be cool if the 1000D were more of a P&S large sensor camera.
More of a G9 replacement.
Maybe with an adapter to allow it to take mount EOS lenses (to give the proper distance between sensor and lens).
Standard lens small designed for camera.
This would be a cool camera that sell, and the price would actually be higher than the current Rebel XT.
I really doubt that it will be a cool new innovative offering, more than likely a very striped down 8 mp camera, total plastic body and feature stripped by just taking the XT and REM out lines of code like the 300D.
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--
I may be, and probably am, completely wrong.
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Gerrit Quote: :
>
Quote: :
> >
I think the 350D is still for sale in stores, a fantastic entry level
>
> DSLR for about 400$.
>
>
Correct, but 90% of the buyers is not well informed, and will buy the
>
Newest model, and not a 3 years old model.
>
So, canon could take the 350D, change the MP of the sensor and say
>
It's a brand new 1000D.
Because they need marketing also, and it's at
>
Least strange to start a marketing campaign like "Are you ready for
>
Your next step? Step into the DSLR world, buy our camera that is
>
Older than any other of our competitors."
I would suggest that is pretty much exactly what they'll do.
It's what Nikon did very successfully - took the D50, whipped out the AF motor (obviously doesn't to Canon), put a more modern LCD on, stuck it in a smaller, newer looking bodyshell, hey presto a 'new' camera that's kept them alive at the bottom end.
Whether the 1000D's based on the 350D or the 400D, if Canon package it right, it will make things hard for the 40D, which almost certainly is a year away from replacement.
It will also give Canon a 'four model' line, against Nikon's 'four and a half'.
Playing four and a half models against three (and an obsolescent one) is one of the ways Nikon has boosted its overall market share.
--
Bob
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Quote: :
>
>
It will also give Canon a 'four model' line, against Nikon's 'four
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And a half'. Playing four and a half models against three (and an
>
Obsolescent one) is one of the ways Nikon has boosted its overall
>
Market share.
Since when is 1Ds mark III, 1D mark III, 5D, 40D, 450D and 400D a three model line?
You *do* know that 1Ds mark III and 1D mark III are completely different cameras, and that the 400D is still being sold, right?
Roberto
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Oops, I stand corrected - I was under the impression that the 450D shoots 5 fps...nvm then.
--
http://solobs.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/solemnobserver/
http://www.meng-chieh.fotopic.net/
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Sorry, loose terminology.
Should have said 'three level line'.
Canon's model numbering goes entry (xxxD), advanced (xxD), pro (1D) - with the 5D somewhere out on a limb.
I didn't count the 400D and the 350D for the reasons I said, they're obsolescent, at least as seen by the market place.
By contrast, Nikon has a more chaotic naming system which at the low end follows a 'bigger number, better'.
So they have entry (D40), premium entry (D60), advanced (D80), lo-pro (D300), pro (D3).
That's a five level progression (of current cameras) playing a three level one.
Variants at the pro end are less important, since that market is much more informed by real needs, rather than features or market position.
Even with the 1000D Nikon will still have a broader range by the end of the year:
Entry 1000D D40 - Canon wins
premium 450D D60 - Canon wins
advanced 40D D90 - Nikon the favourite, they know the target.
lo pro ?
D300 - Nikon wins
lo FF 5DII D10 - all to play for
pro 1DIII D3 - Nikon wins
studio 1DsIII D3x - Nikon wins
See the gap?
--
Bob
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Quote: :
> I think the 350D is still for sale in stores, a fantastic entry level
>
DSLR for about 400$.
It won't be in stores for long, it's pretty obvious they are just selling left-over stock.
Canon used to use its older low-end model for the bottom-of-the-line.
I'll guess they'll stop this practice when the 1000D comes out.
--
Seen in a fortune cookie:
Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed
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Rumors of an XXXXD have been around for years, almost as long as people have been saying there was a 3D right around the corner.
One could argue the 5D is the rumored 3D, but I think it needs a few more features to fill those shoes.
Actually, this makes a lot of sense, particularly if you look at how Canon used to designate their EOS film cameras.
The naming and numbering conventions have been very twisted, but if you look at numbers only it was a little more clear, although it was still somewhat scattered.
XXXX was entry level, and the original film Rebel line falls in this realm.
The old film 1000 SII QD was the first "Rebel".
Other XXXX designated film cameras also carried the Rebel name, with different initials in the name to identify specific models.
One year later (in 1993) the first Rebel with an XXX model number came out.
The XXX Rebels were more feature laden, while the XXXX were (in general) simple entry level cameras.
The XXX model designators in the film world were meant to be a step above.
The 650 EOS is an example, not a pro camera, but better than the Rebel.
The XX model designators started to get into the pro world.
The EOS 33 and the EOS 30 (Elan 7 models) for example.
The single digit designators have always been upper level, entry pro to hard corp pro.
The 5, the 3, and the 1 series.
On the digital side we have/had 300D/350D/400D/450D.
One step up is/was the D30/D60/10D.20D/30D/40D.
Next up is the 5D.
And the top of the heap is the 1D and 1Ds series.
As the XXXD series has never been as featureless as the basic film Rebels, it makes sense that the XXXX family designator has not been used.
So it seems to me a truely stripped digital Rebel would, likely, carry the thousand series designator.
T!
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From the help file of DPP 3.4.1.1
This software supports the following image types.
Raw Images:
EOS-1Ds Mark III, EOS-1D Mark III, EOS-1D Mark II N, EOS-1Ds Mark II, EOS-1D Mark II, EOS 5D, EOS 40D, EOS 30D, EOS 20D/20Da, EOS DIGITAL REBEL XSi/450D, EOS DIGITAL REBEL XTi/400D DIGITAL, EOS DIGITAL REBEL XT/350D DIGITAL, EOS DIGITAL REBEL XS/1000D, EOS D6000*1, EOS D2000*1
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