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car stolen after keys stolen from open house - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums
Hi - we left our patio doors open last night and came down in morning to find handbag stolen and car gone.
der
anyway - I know that we can't claim on the house insurance for locks being changed and stuff, but do you think this will invalidate the car insurance too?
That would be pretty bad for us...
tia for any help
love, Judith
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Thanks for that - actually my husband is convinced that we hadn't left the door open, but we just assumed that because the door was open when we came down, and because there were no marks on the door, that that must have been what happened.
I followed the link but I can't see anything about opening patio doors without leaving a mark - can you help more with that?
ta
Judith
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Quote: : If everyone took their keys to bed, this sort of car theft wouldn't happen as much.
I disagree, I think doing that puts you at an unacceptable level of risk.
I know of 2 people who used to keep their keys well hidden at all times, and both were woken to the sight of someone stood over them threatening them for the keys.
Personally, I keep my keys out of view from the outside, but easily spotted should someone manage to get in.
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I'm surprised to see the police advising that personally.
I suppose to an extent it depends on your car - i.e if you own a car that is likely to be stolen 'to order', then a confrontation is more likely.
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I doubt your car insurance would be invalidated.
Basically, you are insuring the risk of you being negligent.
In leaving the doors open, you have acted negligently and so would be covered.
If your insurers tell you any differently, there is case law that you can rely on.
As soon as I find it, I'll let you know (but tell us what your insurer says!).
You shoudl have no problems.
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I don't think you will be covered.
You need to take reasonable care and it could be argued that you didn't if you left the door unlocked overnight.
It could be argued (sorry, this will sound harsh) that you didn't take any care about the keys and have a reckless attitude.
Though I have to admit to being surprised to find myself disagreeing with gyzmo...
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I was inthe front room when someone came in through the back door to my kitchen and stole my handbag.
However insurance were fine and paid out in full.
I always take my bag wherever I go now, including up to bed with me, but it's easy to see - right next to bed so nasty burglar can grab it and leave me alone.
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Hey, Wyndham, Lets have a fight!!!
! Lol!
referring to Sofi v Prudential Insurance Co Ltd (1990), it was held that teh conduct of the insured (in leaving her car unattended for 15 minutes, during which time £50k of stuff was stolen), although careless, was not wreckless, and so was entitled to claim.
I am not aware of any appeal or or of that case being overturned (but it is a while since I last worked in insurance).
I have also used the case successfully when my bone-headed, knuckle scraping former employer (a certain company that has a phone as it's logo (OOOPS!)) decided to refute a coupe of claims.
The FOS agreed with me when these cases went to complaint stage.
I believe that my argument before could still stand.
Courts now do not favour wordings such as "take all reasonable precautions".
What would happen, however, would need a court or FOS ruling to decide, but I would be confident of a win!
PS, drinking's better than figting!
Lets have a drink together instead!
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PS - just found out how to do signature - what do you think???
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If you leave your keys in your car and it gets stolen your !!!!ed, my wife worked for a major company dealing with insurance claims, in the event of a claim they would ask for the car keys, then refuse to pay out if only one set of keys were presented which were the shiny unmarked spare set
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Quote: : PS - just found out how to do signature - what do you think???
Good! But check out the spelling - prosecute!
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Not sure if this is any help but someone got into our house through the conservatory door without leaving a mark, which automatically made us think the door must have been left unlocked.
When we told the police officer we may have left the door unlocked he disputed it straight away and said unless patio/conservatory doors are double bolted they only need a sharp push/pull/kick and the door will come open.
No more was said about this and the insurance company paid for new locks etc.
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Quote: : PS - just found out how to do signature - what do you think???
And do a spell check as well?
A slight textual inaccuracy is in the signature.
I'll leve you to finf it.
After you have,
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Ok, signature fixed (I think), now back to topic!
the whole issue regarding thefts and the "reasonable care" requierment in policies is a bit pie eyed.
The intention is clear - to stop people doing silly things (like leaving your car open when unattended).
But this is usually a simple case of negligence, that you were negligent in doing the silly thing.
Insurance policies are designed to cover you for your negligence, and this is where the confusion starts (if it hasn't already).
If I leave my car doors wide open with lots of goodies inside for all and sundry to steal, I could not be said to be merely negligent, but wreckless.
Acting in such a manner that you bring trouble upon yourself is different to making a mistake.
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Please don't hit me again gyzmo!
OK, OK, I'll agree to anything you say!!
gyzmo is of course right, and I was wrong to disagree with anything said by the greatest authority on insurance ever
Seriously, I think the insurer will at least argue a little bit, so Jud!th be prepared to stand your ground and Quote: the case law (always good, makes them that little bit afraid of you in case you are a lawyer) But you may not find it easy, I think they can still argue neglegance....
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Flattery will get you everywhere!
I do agree, it would be a fight to argue your case.
There is a chance you could succeed.
There is a chance you may not.
If the insurers dispute, they get legal help - it's fine quoting a legal case, but:
a: If the advisor hasn't heard of it in their scripts (and they won't) they'll just repeat some apology over and over again until you go away
b: Get legal help if they don't pay up.
A legal professional who actually knows what they are talking about will do you more good than anything else.
Ps, Wyndham, thnx for the (incredibly sarcastic!) description of me - I will post you that cheque tomorrow!
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Kaya - what you said has concerned me somewhat...we have only ever had one set of keys for our car (bought 2nd hand from dealer).
Surely if our car was ever stolen they couldn't get out of paying up just because we only have one set of keys?!
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I can't see the motor insurer not paying up as after all, the keys were STOLEN.
Your home ins may have a forcible and violent entry/exit clause but this has nothing to do with your motor insurer.
What if the keys were stolen from a handbag that you left unattended for 20 seconds?
I would say that leaving your car key in your house and then having a thief come into your house and stealing them is not negligent, regardless if you locked up or not.
Leaving your car keys in your car whilst nipping into a shop is clearly negligent yet there has been a number of FOS rulings that made the insurer pay out even in these cases.
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Boots-babe, don't worry!
Insurers ask for car keys to be returned to them where possible.
Obviously, you cannot do so if they have been stolen!
There are reasons that they ask about keys (fraud detection being one), but so long as the claim is legit then they will not refuse to pay out!
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My house was broken into and we can only think that as my son was the last one in he forgot to lock the door.
Not a great deal was stolen (we were in bed at the time and i heard something but assumed it was my son) but my bag including all personal id, driving license was taken which caused me no end of problems as someone was cashing cheques all over the place and runnign up £400 bills on a nice new cobntract they took out!
I wasnt out of pocket for that but in the bag was my car keys and i thought they may come back for the car so had to get me car locks changed.
I did this through car insurance and it took a week!!
And just to add insult to injury I lost my no claims bonus and my premium went up!
I was going to cliam off house insurance for other things but decided not to but just because I had informed them of a break in my premiums went up there too!!
you can never win with insurance companies!!
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