Welcome to Omgili,
Omgili ( Oh My God I Love It ;) is a search engine for discussions. With Omgili you can find answers and solutions, debates, discussions, personal experiences, opinions and more... To learn more about Omgili click here.
This is a complete preview of the discussion as it was indexed by Omgili crawlers. Use this preview if the original discussion is unavailable.
Click here to view the original discussion.
[http://www.topix.net/forum/gr/macedonia/TL...]
Click here to search for discussions with Omgili discussions search engine.
 |
Gruevski seeks NATO, OSCE help on Macedonian minority issue - Topix
WHAT MINORITY? YOU ARE TALKING THE ALBANIAN,S THE BULGARIAN.S SERBS OR THE GREEK MACEDONIAN,S?MAY BE THE GYPSIES?
PLEASE BE MORE SPECIFIC !
|
|
TELL US WHY YOU ARE NOT SLAVIC,S?
TO MY JUDGMENT YOU ARE NOTHING !
BASE THE WAY YOU PRESENT YOUR SELF,S THE DIRTY LANGUAGE YOU USE!
SAY EVERYTHING! WHO AND WHAT YOU ARE!
PICKS W/ HUMAN FACE!
GET CIVILIZE! COMMUNISM GONE FOR GOOD!!!
|
|
Gruevski/Gruios has been getting chilly responses by the recipients of the recent letters he has been sending out....it's driving the FYROM propaganda machine crazy...hehe.
After Bush leaves office, FYROM will be all alone.
FYROM....they're coming for you
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0clvdZi28...
http://i.timeinc.net/time/daily/2001/0103/tet...
|
|
|
WAIT! He is sending one to MARS now....they found water on the planet, so there must be life there which he has to mention this too also.
|
|
PART 1
NO NAME, NO GAME
THE GRANDFATHER of the present premier of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia was a Greek citizen from a village named Ahlada (meaning "large pear" in Greek) outside Florina - a city in the Greek region called Macedonia.
His name was Nikolaos Gruyos and, according to reports in the Greek press, he gave his life defending Greece against the Italian attack from Albania in 1940.
His grandson changed the name to Gruevski probably to stress his 'Macedonian lineage' stemming from King Philippos (meaning "lover of horses" in Greek) and King Alexander (meaning "defender of men") both belonging to the Makedon (ie "tall") nation, as Herodotus describes the Dorians who had settled in northern Greece some three millennia ago.
Mr Gruevski, however, does not only enjoy changing his name but also changing the subject of an ongoing diplomatic procedure.
His insistence that Greece should now recognise the 'Macedonian identity'(culture, language, ancestry) of his people, as well as the existence of a 'Macedonian minority' in Greece and his claims for assets to be given back to those 'Aegean Macedonians' who lost them during the civil war when they fought against the Greek army, were defeated and took refuge in Yugoslavia, all came as so many new proofs (on top of irredentist propaganda, schoolbooks and maps) that Greece was and is right to insist that there is much more in the name issue than meets the eye.
A Republic of Macedonia, dreaming of 'liberating' one day all the 'Macedonian' territories in Greece and Bulgaria, is a nasty neighbour.
There is method in Mr Gruevski's madness.
He recently invited to Skopje Mr Husna, from Pakistan, to show him around the place from where supposedly an ancestor of this colourful tribal leader joined King Alexander's army to conquer Asia.
Messrs Husna and Gruevski are not alone in fantasising about Alexander.
An Arab scholar claimed that he could only be of Arab extraction as his name - Al Exander - clearly indicates.
However, unlike Gruevski, no leader of an Arab country ever asked Greece to endorse this view.
Karamanlis was right to point out that no change of subject was admissible and that the only item on the agenda was and is the country's name.
He was right to refer the issue of lost properties to the judiciary.
Where this columnist begs to differ is the Greek premier's dogmatic assertion - in response to Gruevski's claim about the recognition of a 'Macedonian minority' in Greece - that "there is no such minority in Greece and there never was one".
The existence or absence of a minority in any country cannot be decreed by any head of government.
Greece is a mature European nation bound by treaties to uphold the human rights of all its citizens.
Karamanlis should have said that he did not believe there is any 'Slav-Macedonian' minority in Greece, but if any Greek citizens wanted to belong to one, they were perfectly free to do so, exercising their legal right to self-determination.
After Greece's condemnation by the European Court for not allowing members of its Muslim minority in Thrace to call themselves Turks, the government should be extra careful in such matters.
|
|
PART 2
Of course, Gruevski's 'minority' would face a problem in Greece where there are some 2.5 million people calling themselves Macedonian as there are, for instance, half a million who call themselves Cretan.
It would be poetic justice, however, to see them for a change becoming confused about which name to use.
Curiously enough, it would appear that Mr Gruevski should be the one in a hurry for a solution.
He has to live with a militant Albanian minority of 40 percent who are not averse to using violence in this small Balkan state.
When Professor Thanos Veremis suggested to a bunch of Skopjean academics at a Balkan get-together that it would perhaps be a good idea to transform Fyrom into a federal republic and grant the Albanians their own federated constituent state with Tetovo as its capital where they could live and breed to their heart's content without bothering their Slav compatriots, the idea was rejected in horror.
So now the rapidly growing number of Albanians within the borders of the unitary Fyrom state obliges Gruevski to share power with them, even if, as one of their leaders said some time ago, the Albanians were only keen to secure their rights and could not care less if Fyrom were one day to be called Disneyland.
Understandably, Gruevski and Co want desperately to join Nato and the EU for their own protection.
The rational thing for them to do would be to put an end to the name controversy and ask Greece to help them prosper.
Instead what do they do?
They want Greece to recognise their ethnicity and their ancestral credentials.
Why? Don't they know that Greece can wait while they can't?
Why on earth do they need a Greek certificate of 'Macedonian quality assurance'?
Isn't the Pakistani's tribal leader approval enough for them?
Obviously not.
So Greece has to wait until those who voted overwhelmingly for Nikola Gruevski and his kindergarten colleagues decide to think again.
Opinion polls show that this is already happening.
Meanwhile the chauvinistic hotheads in Greece asking that Greece object to any use of the word Macedonia in the name, would do well to shut up for a while.
|
|
|
If the Greek Macedonians have rights issues it is for them to take action with co-operation of human rights organisations not a President of a country.
Gruevski has done nothing for FYROM except to cause trouble and drive them further into the dark ages.
How dumb are the Scops to follow such a pathetic leader who has his own agenda and does nothing for the prosperity of his people.
Bad luck Scops you deserve what you choose;
What you chose is a trouble maker and not a leader.
If its trouble you want than its trouble you will get!
|
|
Quote: : If the Greek Macedonians have rights issues it is for them to take action with co-operation of human rights organisations not a President of a country.
Gruevski has done nothing for FYROM except to cause trouble and drive them further into the dark ages.
How dumb are the Scops to follow such a pathetic leader who has his own agenda and does nothing for the prosperity of his people.
Bad luck Scops you deserve what you choose;
What you chose is a trouble maker and not a leader.
If its trouble you want than its trouble you will get!
They have to persue these avenues as much as able
and even designate a MINISTER for such things working with UMD and WMC and others who working
to get Macedonian recognized,etc.
|
|
Do people in skopland realize that your prime minister looks like a fool.
No other country sends letters around with fake claims.
You are recognized as FYROM in the UN.
Greece will let you know what your final name will be.
|
|
|
Judged:
1
1
1
Greece a fake democracy
|
|
Regarding the FYROM/"Republic of Macedonia"
Give the West to the Albanians-Kosovars
Give the East BACK to Bulgaria
Give the Middle BACK to Serbia.
These people are the rightful owners of those regions.
Greece has no claims to any of those territories.
The following article shows this.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html ...
Greece has Salonika/Thessaloniki, and the surrounding areas...so their historical claims to the region is complete.
It is the Albanians, Serbs and Bulgarians that have rightfull claims now to the remaining region that is confided to the FYROM/"Republic of Macedonia".
End of Story
|
|
JAMES Quote: : WHAT MINORITY?
YOU ARE TALKING THE ALBANIAN,S THE BULGARIAN.S SERBS OR THE GREEK MACEDONIAN,S?MAY BE THE GYPSIES?
PLEASE BE MORE SPECIFIC !
Macedonian my friend that's what we are.
We are not Greek.
I am a Macedonian originating from Macedonia, ie Macedonia which became part of Greece after the Balkan Wars.
|
|
Milososki asks for a "Reasonable" deal with Greece:
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/122...
WOW!!!
Looks like there is a change of tune, huh?!?!?
Mr Milososki wants a "reasonable deal" with Athens now?
NO MORE EXPANSIONISTIC IDEAS?
WHY THE CHANGE OF HEART!?!?!
What happened?
Did the US Ambassador tell you to STFU with the "Macedonian Minorities" letters that Mr Gruevski was sending to everyone everywhere?
Could it be that all of a sudden the ALBANIAN POPULATIONS and the BULGARIAN LANGUAGE issues became an even BIGGER factor now?
I say let the thieves of history (Greek), religion (Serbian) and Language (Bulgarians rot.
Considering that more and more Albanians are entering the country, and that more are leaving to become BULGARIAN AGAIN, I say
DON'T AGREE TO ANYTHING NOW.
Let the pressure get so big, that the nation implodes and the region goes back to Albania and Bulgaria....their RIGHTFULL owners.
"reasonable deal" what a joke this Mr Milososki is now.
Let the BEGGING TO GREECE BEGIN!
|
|
Macedonian from Quote: : <Quote: d text>
Macedonian my friend that's what we are.
We are not Greek.
I am a Macedonian originating from Macedonia, ie Macedonia which became part of Greece after the Balkan Wars.
Your ancestors migrated south into Macedonia during the slavic invasion of the 5th and 6th centuries.
Tito wrongfully named you Macedonian.
|
|
Greek Quote: : Gruevski/Gruios has been getting chilly responses by the recipients of the recent letters he has been sending out....it's driving the FYROM propaganda machine crazy...hehe.
After Bush leaves office, FYROM will be all alone.
FYROM....they're coming for you
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0clvdZi28...
http://i.timeinc.net/time/daily/2001/0103/tet...
Who cares who is in office.
We the Macedonians will always remain Macedonian.
No one can take that away from us.
The Jews existed for thousands of years without being recognised.
The Nazis tried to destroy them without any success.
The Greeks tried to Hellenise all of us from the Greek part of Macedonia today without total success.
Bring on Obama, we are not scared of him.
|
|
Quote: : <Quote: d text>
Your ancestors migrated south into Macedonia during the slavic invasion of the 5th and 6th centuries.
Tito wrongfully named you Macedonian.
Your ancestors migrated from Asia Minor in 1913 and occupied our land.
|
|
Quote: : <Quote: d text>
Your ancestors migrated south into Macedonia during the slavic invasion of the 5th and 6th centuries.
Tito wrongfully named you Macedonian.
I am slavic Macedonian and my great great grandfather came from whats now the northern part of greece...
I still have cousins in that region that speak slavic macedonian!
The Greeks want to hide this truth...
This is a minority group and proves that they are there and from what my grandfather use to tell me the greeks persecuted them and alot of them fled to yugoslavia...
My grandfather had rightfull property in NAUOSA and the greeks took it....
I will not forget this and thats why I agree with gruevski in this topic..
The Greeks did what other nations have done to minorities and thats to get rid of them.
I was in Ptolemaida visiting a cousin of my grandfather which remained in greece and was lucky and told me many stories...
You southern Greeks wouldn't have a clue about the north....all you know is GREEK propaganda!
|
|
Quote: : <Quote: d text>
I am slavic Macedonian and my great great grandfather came from whats now the northern part of greece...
I still have cousins in that region that speak slavic macedonian!
The Greeks want to hide this truth...
This is a minority group and proves that they are there and from what my grandfather use to tell me the greeks persecuted them and alot of them fled to yugoslavia...
My grandfather had rightfull property in NAUOSA and the greeks took it....
I will not forget this and thats why I agree with gruevski in this topic..
The Greeks did what other nations have done to minorities and thats to get rid of them.
I was in Ptolemaida visiting a cousin of my grandfather which remained in greece and was lucky and told me many stories...
You southern Greeks wouldn't have a clue about the north....all you know is GREEK propaganda!
You are the first Slavic Macedonian from Greece to log on this forum.
Myself I am a Greek Macedonian from Drama and as you I have also migrated to the US.
I am sorry to hear that about your grandparents.
However, could you be a little bit more specific and explain who was the one that persecuted them?
Was it the rebels (andartes)?
Was it the Greek Army or police?
Was it Greek forces in cooperation with US or British forces operating in the area at the time?
What do you have to say about the kidnapped children from Greek families?
Have you heard about the Abecedar the reading book that the Greek govt was the first in the world to print in the Slavic Macedonian language?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abecedar
I am looking forward to your answers.
Please don't let me down.
I personally strongly believe that any solution or progress in the issues related to Macedonia can come only from among the Macedonians provided that they respect each other and accept that Macedonia is a multinational, multi-ethnic, multilingual and multicultural region.
|
|
Even President Crvenkovski is criticizing Gruevski's post office diplomacy, doubting it's effectiveness as well as acknowledging that it puts FYROM's chances of entering NATO and EU at serious risk.
Someone is giving Gruevski some pretty bad advice.
There is only one issue on the table: the name.
Attempts to deviate from that with unsubstantiated claims will derail Nimetz's efforts and keep FYROM in the dark ages.
|
|
|
Macedonian toponyms in Aegean Macedonia changed by Greece neo-fascist government (part 1):
Armensko Alonas
Balgarsko-Blatsa Oxies
Banica, Banitsa Vevi (Florina Prefecture)
Banica, Banitsa Simvoli (Serres Prefecture)
Barovica Kastaneri
Belotinci Lefkia
Ber Veria Imathia p.6
Berista Ptelea
Besfina Sfika
Bitusha Parorio
Bizovo Megaloplatanos
Blace Ahladia
Blaci Oxies
Bobchor Pimeniko
Bobista Verga
Boevo Katsanovo
Bogacko Agios Nikolaos
Bojmica Axioupoli
Boresnica Palestra
Boriani Agios Athanasios
Borislav Periklia
Borovo Potami
Bozec Atira
Brest Akrolimnio
Bresteni Kria Nera
Breznica Vathohori
Bruhovo Kokina
Buf Akrita
Bugarievo Karavias
Buk Paranestio
Bukovik Oxia
Bukovo Oxia
Bulamasli Akakies
Bultista Profitis Ilias
Butkovo Kerkini
Chavdar Psomotopi
Chegan Meteora
Chereshnitsa Polikeraso
Chereshovo Pagoneri
Cherkovian K1idokhori
Chernak Strotis
Cherna-reka Karpi
Chernova Fitia
Chernovishta Mavrokampos
Chetirok Mezopotama
Chiflik Trikha
Chushuligovo Anagenisi
Dabovo Valtotopi
Dambeni Dendrokhori
Darovo Ketrokampos
Demir Hisar Sidirokastro
Derveni Akritodokhori
Dobrol ishta Kalokhori
Dobrinovo Iliochori
Dolno Rodivo Kato Korifi
Dolno Garbali Kato Surmena
Dolno Kleshtino Kato Klene
Dolno Kotori Kato Idruza
Dolno Pozarsko
Dovista Papas
Dracevo Lefkotea
Dragomanci Apsalos
Dragomir Vapsiokhori
Dragos Zevgolatio
Dramendzik Drakontio
Dranic Antifilipi
Dravunista Geraki
Dremiglava Drimos
Drenoveny Kranionas
Drenovo Glikoneri
Drenovo Monastiraki
Dreveno Pili
Druska Drosia
Dudular Diavata
Dupiak Dispilio
Durgutli Nigdi
Dutli Eleonas
Dzuma Amigdala
Egri Dere Kalithea
Ehatli Kavalaris
Ekshi-su Xino Nero
Elesnica Fea Pitra
Elevo Lakia
Elsen Karperi
Ezerec Petropoulaki
Fetista Pola Nera
Fotinista Fotini
Fotovista Valtokhoro
Frankovica Ermakia
Fuceli Semeli
Fustani Evropos
Galista Omorfoklisia
Garbasel Kastanies
Garipci Khloronomos
Garljanl Khionato
Gaskarla Kalokhori
Gavalanci Valtudi
Gavrista Dorothea
Gedi-Dermen Eptomili
German Skhistolitos,Agios Germanos
Gevsekli Rematia
Gjulobasi Pikrolimni
Gjumenic Stiva
Gjundzeli Vamvakuza
Gjupcevo Gipsohori
Gjuredzik Granitis
Gjuvezna Asiros
Globostica Kalohorio
Gola Korifes
Golem Besik Megali Volvi
Golem Sevidrik Megalokampos
Golisani Lefkadia
Golo-selo Gimna
Gorenci Korisos
Gorna Nuska Ano Dafnudi
Gorni Postular Ano Apostoli
Gornica Kalivrisi
Gornicevo Ke1i
Gorno Garbali Ano Surmena
Gorno Karadzakjoj Monoklisia
Gorno Klestino Ano Klene
Gorno Krusare Exo Akladohori
Gorno Krusovo Ano Kervilion
Gorno Papratsko Ano Fterias
Gorno Pozarsko Ano Lutraki
Gorno Rodivo Ano Korifi
Gorno Selo Ano Vermio
Govlishta Krokos
Gradishte Kiros
Gradobori Pentalofos
Granci Ftelia
Granichevo Krioneri
Grazhden Vrontero
Gropino Voltolivado
Gugovo Virita
Gurbesh Agriosikia
...
|
|
|
|